Andrew & Elaine

Introduction

Shane:
Hi, Andrew and Elaine, how are you?

Andrew:
Yeah, great thanks. How are you?

Shane:
Very good. Thanks. Thanks for agreeing to jump on a call with me today.

Elaine:
No problem.

Shane:
As we’d previously discussed, I was just really interested to have a chat with you today, because ideally we wanted to just get some of your thoughts and feelings about the buyer’s agency service and that kind of thing to share, I guess, with other people that might potentially look to work with us in the future.

Elaine:
Yeah.

Andrew:
Sure.

Please provide a little background on yourselves and your circumstances at the moment?

Shane:
Would you guys mind just providing, I guess for a bit of context, a little bit of background on yourselves? Obviously you’re in a different country at the moment as well.

Andrew:
Yeah, so Elaine and I are both professionals, both Australian citizens. We live a bit of a split life. So we spend winters in France. Mainly, because we’ve both got an obsession with skiing. We both work though in Australia, so we spend about eight months a year in Australia normally, and both contract work in IT. And we’ve done that probably for about 10 years now. And Elaine’s a change manager and I’m a program director for big IT systems implementations. So that’s a little bit about us.

Shane:
That’s fantastic. And then obviously we helped you to buy a property here in Brisbane. What made you choose Brisbane by the way?

Elaine:
Well, we were already in Brisbane, so when we immigrated a long, long time ago, we lived in Sydney for a long time. So we lived in Sydney for over 20 years, and we just found that, to be honest, it was a climate change, because we were here in the winter freezing in the snow, and then we would come back to Australia and do winter again. So our whole life we lived in winter and to be honest Brisbane is a better climate in the winter [crosstalk 00:02:06]. Because we contract work and like a lot of people in Australia, we work all over Australia. It was just a better lifestyle, better climate. Yeah. Still love Sydney. Love it a lot, but I think Brisbane’s a a nicer place to live.

Andrew:
So it’s a more outdoory place. So yeah, we’re both outdoorsy people, so suits our lifestyle and yeah. The warm weather is a bonus.

Elaine:
Yeah.

What were you doing in terms of trying to buy a property in Brisbane before we started working together?

Shane:
Yeah. That’s pretty cool. And then do you want to roll back before obviously we started working together. What were you doing in terms of trying to find a property here, and what were you looking for? How did that all start?

Elaine:
Okay. So we previously had owned a property in New Farm and when it turned out that we were going to be in France for a bit longer than we had anticipated, we actually ended up selling that property with a [inaudible 00:03:05] always buying something. And then as time went on, we’re very fortunate here in France, because we’ve built our own chalet here in France, which we did as a remote build. And so I think when you’ve lived in somewhere that architects help designed, and then you live in it for a long time, it’s no longer just a holiday place, you actually live in it. You realize that there’s nothing as good as living in something that you’ve designed.

So we were thinking, I think all along, we would probably to build in Brisbane, but a little bit in a slightly different area. So we wanted to move away from New Farm to get a little bit more calm and a bit more space around us. So yeah, that was how we… We just thought we’d sold our property. We were in a position to get something else, but we decided that probably a build was going to be our preference, but we weren’t stuck on it.

Shane:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then how did you go about looking for something? How did that process all start off?

Andrew:
Yeah ,I mean, with most things, I suppose the world’s gone a little bit digital, so we’ve got better access than we had maybe 10, 15 years ago to what’s available through browsing the internet, but you still find, and we were finding this when we purchased our last house in Brisbane, that there are properties that are just not there. The people are not ready to commit to putting them on the web or-

Elaine:
On the market.

Andrew:
… I think around a third of properties get sold off market. I think they call it. Our start was browsing the web. There was a little bit of frustration with that, because it’s the same property that’s on the web every week. And you can see that things are perhaps a little bit optimistically priced, and it’s very, very difficult to have a conversation with people at 12,000 kilometers distance.
So, that was our start to looking at properties. We were also working with an estate agent, the person who we’ve got a lot of trust in, and they could only take us so far really, because their expertise was in New Farm. It wasn’t really a wider Brisbane level of expertise. And to be honest, they were engaged on the part of the seller rather than the buyer. So it was a bit a conflict for them helping us out on a continual basis. So, that’s how it all started.

Shane:
Yeah. Yeah. I remember when you mentioned that you’d spoken with the agent and she suggested to speak with us.

Elaine:
Absolutely

Have you ever heard of Brisbane Buyers Agent before? What concerns did you have in using one?.

Shane:
Had you heard of a buyer’s agent before that? I mean, had you considered it?

Elaine:
Yes. So I think particularly from our Sydney experience, a lot of people in Sydney use buyer’s agents, because the Sydney market is usually quite high activity, and people, I think, generally don’t have as much time to go to open houses, and it’s very competitive, a lot going by auction. And a lot of people would rather not buy at auction. So I think buyer’s agents we’re quite an accepted thing in Sydney. We’ve never ever used one before, but knew, I guess, just from our own research, usually how they worked.

And I think the conclusion that we came to, I mean to be honest, initially it was probably simply a financial one. We know how much it costs. And at this time we could fly home. We know how much it costs to fly home. We have nowhere to live and we have no car. So suddenly you start to add these things up and then you say, “Well, how long might it take us to find somewhere?” Well, we could be lucky in a month could do it, but it’s probably more like two months. And then you start to add all that up and go, hang on, hang on. Maybe we should use somebody who’s already there, and then I think you start to think about all the additional skills.

So we both work in IT. We’re not property developers or buyers, or we’ve owned quite a few properties in our lives, but we’re not experts in the area. We’re not financial negotiators. And we are sitting in the middle of the French Alps, and not too many people, agents in the area that we were looking in even knew anything about us. So why would they go out of their way to put properties in front of us? So suddenly it’s a balance sheet, isn’t it? And you look at it and you go, actually, we are not the best. If I was interviewing me to go and buy a house remotely, I probably wouldn’t give me the job. So why try?

Shane:
Got it.

Andrew:
Yeah, I think we’re both very used to as well to engaging with the people who are specialists in what they do. So that really had no level of fear for us, because that’s what we both do for a living. So we engage other people who we know can work better than us. So that’s important.

Shane:
Yeah. That’s really good. And do you mind me asking, I know that obviously there are some initial questions when you first reached out, and you heard about the types of service. And I guess, if we go to that interview scenario, did you interview a few buyer’s agents or how did you go about that?

Did you consider working with any other Brisbane Buyers Agents prior to settling on moving forward with us?

Elaine:
To be honest, we didn’t. And the primary reason for that is probably because the personal recommendation that we had was so strong. So I think, because we had such a trust in that person, what we did is I guess we picked that up, and then basically it was… I mean, I remember looking at the website and for me, one of the important things was that there was quite a wide range, because we were probably looking at trying to find a piece of land, but we were also open to other things. And so the fact that there was some evidence that there were some houses had been purchased through this way from yourselves, some was land, some were investments. So it didn’t look a narrow field to me, it looked like, yeah, we weren’t going to be in a position where you weren’t used to dealing with people like us.

So that was, to be honest, because we had that strong, personal recommendation. We didn’t go… And then we kind of went, “Well, let’s see how this pans out.” We’re both quite perceptive. And we, I think, just felt comfortable immediately. And so we didn’t feel the need to go and seek out any other buyer’s agents.

Andrew:
Maybe another point. I mean, it was pretty clear to us from the recommendation that have been given, and the information that was available on the website that you had the local market knowledge that would help us find what we wanted, and that experience poured out in spades as we got more and more engaged with yourself. So, when you do something like engage a buyer’s agent, it’s a process that you grow into. So having a contract that basically allows you to grow into that relationship as well is quite important. So, the size of the engagement fee versus the success fee was quite an important thing for us.
And again, it’s something that we’re both used to dealing with working on big programs at work. So you don’t pay for what you don’t get.

Shane:
That’s a very good point.

Andrew:
You have an opportunity though, to get engaged and you don’t get anything for nothing, which is the other good point there. So there is a fee up front, but it’s not a fee that comes anywhere near to breaking the bank. So, that’s important to us that the contract was the right shape.

Shane:
Got it. Yeah, no, that’s good to know. What, I guess, might’ve been some of your concerns, if there were any about either the purchase, or the process, or any of those sort of things? Were there any things there that, I guess, even maybe pre-talking with myself that were important?

Andrew:
About the purchase itself, no. Because what was happening, Shane, I mean, good memory of this, we were being exposed to opportunities that we just didn’t know about. So, there were houses that you were showing us that weren’t on the market, and they were really very interesting. So it was a bit of a new experience for us seeing how much there was available. And it felt all the time like we were not being dragged along. We’re actually having an opportunity to look at things. And really one of the things that surprised us, this was a really pleasant surprise, was that there was no sense of impatience from yourself. Things weren’t quite right. Then we could start again.

Elaine:
It was fine.

Andrew:
And that really quite pleasantly surprised us, because even though we didn’t want to do that we were quite keen to buy. You always gave us the opportunity [inaudible 00:13:11] cancel to say-

Elaine:
If it’s not right.

Andrew:
… “Well, if in retrospect, if on second thoughts, this isn’t the right thing for you. Let’s start again.” We’re thinking, well, this guy’s got time on his hands to help us. This is great. It didn’t work out that way, because we bought fairly quickly, but it was a great experience. So yeah, no real concerns emerging through the process, I don’t think.

Elaine:
No, not at all. No.

Shane:
No, well, it’s a pleasure. I mean, I know that when you know that’s the right one, you tend to get a feel for that as well. I prefer to make sure that we’ve exhausted all avenues, that you’re really, really comfortable before we obviously purchase something for you. So yeah.

Elaine:
I think that’s actually quite a good point, Shane, because I think it’s interesting when you observe people talking about property and buying property, that whole feel thing, I think actually in a lot of ways, when people are actually doing it themselves actually becomes a hindrance. So although we were open to a number of solutions, we had quite clear requirements. And I think that once you can find somebody like yourself, who that you feel that you’ve transmitted that to, and they can translate that into something. I think it’s interesting. We bought the land that we built, our chalet here in France, when we were living in Australia. We bought it off the internet. We didn’t even have a buyer’s agent for goodness’ sake. It was just on the internet, and we bought it on the internet and we didn’t see it for nine months, or something until we… So we’d well and truly bought it by then.

And a lot of people say to us, and about us buying in Brisbane when we were living here in France, people say, “I don’t know how you can do that. You’ve never even seen it.” And it always takes me aback that people think that they’re the best people to do that themselves. And actually, I don’t think they are. I think that if you can clarify your requirements, and get a trust with somebody, then I think they’re the best person, because you know this, “Oh, it just doesn’t feel right.” Well, for goodness’ sake, it’s probably because you would never have that carpet yourself. That’s why it doesn’t feel right. So just get over it.

Shane:
Yeah. There’s ways to gently work with that, that feel.

Elaine:
That’s right. It’s to actually not… Because you, well with us, you certainly never pushed us in any direction, but it is, just having somebody who’s got a more objective view. So this whole thing, I just think people, when they hear about what we do when we buy remotely, they’re like, “But you could get there and you could be next to the gasworks.” And you go, “But I wouldn’t be next to the gasworks because I checked that obviously. Shane went and took a video. So I knew there was no gasworks there.”

But it’s quite an interesting thing. I think that maybe a lot of people one of their barriers to using a buyer’s agent could be that they feel that they need that control over their feeling or whatever. And I would just challenge that and say, “Maybe you don’t. Maybe you’re not the best person to buy yourself. Maybe you should use a professional to do that.” I just think it’s a different way of looking at it.

Shane:
I tend to agree, and I do find that like you said, that feeling of what someone wants can be transferred. Once we’ve worked through a number of different properties and we’ve gained feedback, and I learn from you, for example, in the process of likes, dislikes, then I get to know what that feeling is, and can combine that with the property knowledge that then I think provides the confidence in the decision. But I definitely see a lot where I’ve had times where I’ve bought properties for clients, and the way that the process has gone is we’ve looked at a number of properties first, and then I’ve found one and I would go, “I know this is for you, because I know it has the feel, it has the street.” And then I can also tell you that it’s, for example, this is one of the best streets and it’s great value, and then we can overlay that knowledge with getting the right feel together, then it all comes together nicely.

Elaine:
And I think that’s actually quite good, because we were buying in an area that we don’t know, so we would go shopping there. We’d been walking there. We would run around the streets. But I don’t know it. I don’t know it like we knew New Farm. New Farm, you give me the name of the street, and I can tell you the sorts of houses that are there, the average price, and who lives there. And so I think that, again, for people who are moving to different area even. I mean, literally New Farm and Hawthorne are not very far away, but still there’s a difference. And so having that as well is very, very valuable. And not just for people who are absent in terms of geographically, but people who it’s just one suburb, we were moving, but we didn’t have that knowledge.

There was one or two streets we knew about, but that was… We knew we probably wouldn’t want to live there, but other than that, it was open. So I think that’s a good point about a buyer’s agent as well. You rushing around, going to open homes on a Saturday. You just drive up park where you can, go in. You don’t really, I think… It is all about one thing, which is obviously the house and that’s important. But I think having that, “Well, because you can just get to here, or the school is just here, or this is the vibe in this little bit of this suburb.” I think that’s really very, very valuable knowledge.

Shane:
Yeah, definitely. [crosstalk 00:19:19]

Andrew:
I think as well the emotion in a process of buying whatever you’re buying, whether it’s a house, or a very expensive car. The emotion builds with the level of investment that you’re making, and the constraints around what’s available. So you can find yourself cornering yourself if you’re not careful into making a decision that might not be right for you. So having the help and advice from somebody who knows the market, who’s a little bit more objective than you, and less emotional because it’s not their next 20 years that are going to be spent in the property, but they can see the pitfalls as well as the opportunities with it. I think that’s a great thing.

So yes, it’s not something that we ever looked forward to, if we were in the market to buy a house, to actually be going through that process of trolling around the streets, and bumping into people who have a very secretive view of what something might be worth, and trying to find out the way of engaging with people on even what the benchmark price would be. It’s something we just, again, didn’t have the skills to do. So find somebody who does for goodness sake.

Elaine:
Or the time.

Andrew:
Stop wasting your own time doing that.

Do you think a Brisbane Buyers Agent would have still been beneficial to you if you were living locally in Brisbane?

 

Shane:
That’s a good point. So do you think, even though, obviously some people say, “Ah buyer’s agent very relevant when you’re not living here.” You’re miles away. You’re in another country, or in another state, although we work probably a high percentage with locals. But I mean, if you were still living here, do you think it would be beneficial to you?

Andrew:
Look with the hindsight of what we’ve done with you, most certainly.

Elaine:
Definitely.

Andrew:
It’s easy to be capped in hindsight on this stuff, but the outcomes have been great for us. So whilst our particular circumstances in the first instance drove us to using a buyer’s agent, the outcomes for us have been great. We got a property at a keener price than we would’ve been able to achieve ourselves, and while it’s a few percentage points, it’s a pretty important amount of money when it’s the price of a car. So it’s important to think about things that way. And it’s also the location of the property that you’ve been able to acquire. So Brisbane’s a tight market and 30, 40% of the houses not ever appearing on the web, or in the estate agent offices windows means that you need access to somebody who knows about those things and getting into the market first has big value.

The particular property that we bought, we thought the guy had taken it off the market. He told us that it wasn’t for sale.

Elaine:
It wasn’t for sale.

Shane:
Yeah.

Andrew:
So just simply breaking that nexus and finding out, well, it is-

Elaine:
It is for sale.

Andrew:
… for sale, and I’m really quite keen to sell, but I forgot to get back in touch with you. We wouldn’t have been able to do that. And I dare say we wouldn’t have bothered doing it if we’d have been in Brisbane, because the guy was pretty short with us. So that emotion again, would have kicked in for us.

Elaine:
He’s not bothered.

Andrew:
He doesn’t really care about selling to us. We’re not going to bother him anymore. But that interaction with you allowed us to revisit that property, and eventually go through with the purchase and get it at a great price.

Elaine:
I think that’s actually a really good question Shane, about whether we would use a buyer’s agent if we were sat in Brisbane, because I guess, yes, our initial drive was because we just looked at that balance sheet, and went, “Seriously? We’re going to spend all this money to go over there and we might find somewhere and we might not.” But if I think about that balance sheet, I then go, “Well, when we’re in Brisbane, we’re usually both working five days a week, very long hours. It’s actually not what I particularly want to do on a Saturday is to go and…” I mean, we were lucky in New Farm because we do have a really good relationship with a big player in the market, but to go to another suburb, to start to make all those relationships with agents so that they can push stuff our away that’s maybe not on the market, or might come to the market in two weeks time.

To me, it’s a no brainer. Your time is worth money. A lot of people will say things like, “Oh my gosh. I can’t believe you pay an accountant to do your tax return. It’s not that hard.” And I say, “Yeah, but I also pay a hairdresser to cut my hair, because I’m not saying it’s that hard, but I’m not going to do it myself. I’m not a hairdresser.” So why do people think that they’re such experts in buying property when… We’ve bought and sold quite a bit in our lives, but a lot of people would maybe only do four or five transactions in their whole life. That doesn’t make you necessarily the right person.

So yeah, I think there’s no doubt in our minds, we had a great experience and we’re very happy, but even if the experience had taken a lot longer, and perhaps it had a few humps in the process, I still think I would look at that and go, “How much is my time worth? Am I an expert in doing this? No, I’m not. My resume does not cover selling and buying property. So use somebody who that is their job.”

Andrew:
Yeah. I think as well one of the things which are looked back on when you’re buying a place, there are lots of things that are difficult to organize yourself, that you certainly wouldn’t have the experience in organizing conveyances lawyers, all of these third parties that begin to get involved, paying the banks. Smoothing that process over by having somebody who’s used to it, who knows who can help us do that. We actually ended up engaged in a very good lawyer again at your recommendation, who’s helped us through the process and actually helped us with the rental contract to get the house rented at the end of the day, because we’re not quite ready to build yet. And I think taking that weight of worry off our minds about how to do that, and how quickly it could be done, and how cost-effectively it could be done, those are things that we just couldn’t have done ourselves. So whilst there was probably nothing in it for you, there’s been quite a lot in it for us. And yeah, worked out well again.

Shane:
That’s good to hear. We to use the lawyers that we work with. As you know, they’re great, and that’s why we continue to work with them, because we always get great feedback from clients. Some of the purchases that we make, we buy at very good value, and sometimes any chance to get out, potentially, could be dangerous. So we find the communication process has to be water tight with the solicitors. So we’ve got a really good process working with the lawyers that we work with, and that’s why we continue to work with those guys. I’m glad to hear. Thanks for the feedback. That’s good.

Quickly before we obviously go. What would you say to anyone that maybe is sitting on the fence about using this kind of service? Because I think it’s the sort of thing that it’s hard to explain sometimes the benefits, and I think even you mentioned that it was a balance sheet decision initially, but then afterwards looking back, it’s different. What would you suggest to anyone that’s maybe not sure?

Elaine:
I think to anybody, that’s not sure. I think they have to really try and analyze for themselves what it is that’s stopping them. So I think it’s like that with any decision in life, is that you can’t keep going over and over. If you’re not getting a decision in your head, then you have to say, “Well, what is it that’s stopping you?” And I think only when somebody can answer that, can you actually point them in the right direction. But I still think it just comes back to, what’s your investment in this upfront? It’s not a big investment I think, maybe that is part of it. For us, I guess, because we were looking at quite a hefty balance sheet for our alternative, that was something where we were still quite surprised that it was not a big investment initially to see if this can work. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. You’re not up for a massive amount of money.

And the other thing is, I think it’s like a lot of things, you have to meet with somebody. You have to meet with a buyer’s agent, and just let it go, just let that process run, and then actually start to see. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. You haven’t committed to a sole relationship with this one person until you find somewhere and buy it. I think it’s interesting. It’s just not what people are used to. I think that’s what it is. I think most people, if they were selling their house would maybe already know one or two agents, they might go ask an agent what price they might get for it, and then that’s it.
I don’t think people spend that long on that decision to be honest, most people, but I think the buyer’s agent is more an unknown. And talk to people who’ve used them. That is the other thing that I would say, because it all just happened for us, and it worked really, really well. And I think that if people are unsure, then you’ve got to talk to people who have used them, and not just to hear the good news, but also to have a reality check on it, and check out their own concerns about it. I think it’s like any decision. Yeah. You’ve just got to really think about what it is that’s stopping you.

Andrew:
I think from my perspective, maybe two things, and forgive me if I’ve mentioned one of them before. The estate agent’s market works on behalf of the seller. They don’t look after us poor buyers. If you’re going to be a 100% reliant on them, then you’ve got to accept that there’s some risk that you’re not being advised optimally by those estate agents, who are certainly working on behalf of the seller. I mean, I’m delighted with estate agent services, if I’m selling a house. Certainly not delighted with them when I’m buying a house.

Elaine:
When I’m buying a house.

Shane:
Good point.

Andrew:
And maybe the other thing to say from my perspective is that time itself is an opportunity, but it’s also a threat depending on the market conditions. So, if you need to buy a place and you’re struggling with that process of buying a place, for goodness’ sake, get somebody to help you. In a rising market, you’re going to lose a lot more than the cost of the buyer’s agent by sitting on your hands. And that’s something that we could have certainly done. In a falling market, you may be paying too much for something that the price has dropped away on, and leave yourself with your trousers halfway down your legs thinking, “Well, how do I sell this property again?” So, having somebody with that experience of what’s happening in the market, and being able to make the fine judgments on what something is worth is, well, it was everything for us. So, don’t delay in getting a buyer’s agent.

Shane:
That’s good advice, guys. Thank you very much. Well, thank you for having a chat with me today.

Elaine:
No problem.

Shane:
We can finish it off there. And also thank you. I know at times I’ve done exactly what you suggested, and suggested to clients considering our service to speak with clients we’ve worked with and you’ve been so helpful in helping them. Hopefully this video now helps us to help some other people through the process, and thank you again.

Elaine:
Yeah, no problem. Nice to see you, Shane.

Andrew:
No, that’s great, and we’re looking forward to getting back to Australia at some stage and-

Elaine:
Having a drink.

Andrew:
… having a drink with you.

Shane:
That’s right. It’d be so good to catch up, yeah, when you come back.